Thank you, lye — 4.463 ounces or 126.524 grams. love your recipes! My son lives in a residential care home. Thank you so much for another informative post, I just love reading them. And I think I might as well avoid honey as well. All recipes are made and used at your own risk. I’m not sure what she used that caused it to be brown, probably an additive such as milk (the sugar in milk can caramelize from the heat during saponification and turn soap a brownish color or she may have hot processed), sugar, molasses, etc. Most of the time, this works out! It should be about 3 times the size of the soap batter so there’s plenty of room if the soap starts to “volcano” up. Hi Erica! The lye will turn the milk a deep yellow. Yes, you could use all olive oil, but then you’d have a castile soap recipe. I may make another hot batch just to compare again. Can i use only olive oil instead of all the above mentioned oils? and here’s a post that might help on how to use it when swapping oils: Once you reach a nice, strong trace, it’s time to turn the crock pot back on Low. :). Lots of Lather Will it turn back to white eventually or did I ruin the batch? Your soap is still usable. Thank you, Hi Alexandra! It seems this would be a nice face soap, I am one that can not use cleansers on my face, I like the feel of clean and then apply a light face cream. The farmhouse was one hundred years old, there was already snow on the ground, and the heat was sparse-—as was the insulation. I just unmoulded and sliced it and I think I’ve done something wrong. and use milk instead of lavender tea. The melted oils should bring the temperature to around 90 to 100°F, though you don’t have to get too hung up on trying to make the temperatures match. Hi Meg! Solutions to Problems Using Milks in Hot Process Soap Making. By next Christmas, I suspect you’ll be a soapmaking pro at this rate! If my house is REALLY warm in the summer, I sometimes let my soaps sit at room temperature uninsulated; also the same if a batch has honey or milk in it & I’m afraid it will overheat. Stir by hand for around 30 seconds then begin mixing with an immersion (stick) blender. For example, at the Soap Queen blog: This excellent article over at I’d Lather Be Soaping has tons of great information and should answer all of your questions on resizing recipes to fit your mold: For a whiter soap next time, you can use light colored oils (oils like extra virgin olive oil or dark green oils can darken your soap). Some soapmakers like to weigh their soaps after cutting & throughout cure time. The floors weren’t even, either. So, if a recipe calls for 9 oz of milk, and you want to add 2 oz at trace, you would make the lye solution with 7 ounces of milk and stir in the other 2 ounces at trace. So, for that recipe that calls for 9 oz of milk, you could use 8 ounces of milk to make the lye solution, and reserve the other ounce as 1 ounce of distilled water (more milk might work for this too instead of distilled water, but I haven’t tested that one out.) Alternate until trace is reached. Olive oil has almost no lather to speak of, but is a nice gentle cleanser (excellent for sensitive skin) and though it starts off soft, eventually cures to a very hard bar over a long cure time. What if I wanted to add Kokum butter to this receipt? You can also use a fragrance calculator like this one: And there are plenty of other reasons to make soap by the hot process method anyway. Other Additions: Yogurt (for smoother hot process soap), honey (for more bubbly soap), clays, charcoal . I use raw milk which also adds extra vitamins and nutrients. My then-twelve-year-old son walked in the door and said, “You’ve brought us to this slanted little house to die." Hi Vanessa, What a great idea! It’s so hot in Boston in the summer, half an hour gets it loose enough so I can slip the milk out of the container easily (I also harrass everyone I know to save 1/2 qt. Hi Elizabeth! I would wait and add it after cooking, since it can really heat up soap and easily get scorched. :), Hi Jan, Add fragrance, color, and oatmeal. Three weeks later, it’s still a nice, light cold process soap that saponified within two weeks (despite being refrigerated immediately after being placed in the mold). Already registered? Add a spoonful of the lye onto the milk ice cubes. :). so you could use a 3 lb mold for it OR use a 2.5 lb mold and have a container or extra individual molds handy for any extra soap batter you may have. There’s nothing wrong with a darker soap, it’s just an aesthetic issue. I’m so glad it worked out well for you! You can also input the amount of oils into a lye calculator, like this one: Colloidal oatmeal would be wonderful in this recipe! You don’t want a superfat too high, or you could get an oily residue on your hair. I was so excited to finally make soap that I left that oil out and my kids were helping. But the recipe I found and love superheated.Coconut Oil with honey? You answered that question wonderfully! I have a post I wrote on making substitutions here that you might find helpfuL: https://thenerdyfarmwife.com/how-to-make-any-soap-recipe-palm-free/. The good news is you can use any cold process soap recipe as a hot process soap recipe. Hi Sarah! I just got back from 3 weeks away and the orange spots have disappeared! During one-day workshops, I’m dealing with limited time constraints. Looking at the link, it says: When mixing milk and lye, the milk will turn an orange color. I made a cold process batch and it was white in color when I put it in the mold but after a week the soap bars have turned a golden brown color. Hi Mare! complete Natural Soap Making package (HERE), http://www.brambleberry.com/Pages/Fragrance-Calculator.aspx, https://www.thesage.com/calcs/LyeCalc.html, http://teachsoap.com/2012/12/18/hot-process-cpop-swirls/, http://www.brambleberry.com/pages/Fragrance-Calculator.aspx, https://thenerdyfarmwife.com/how-to-make-soap-with-milk/, http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/how-to-add-lye-to-milk-for-cold-process-soap/, https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/cold-process-soap/my-favorite-cold-process-recipes-2/, https://www.bulkherbstore.com/blog/post/how-to-make-easy-cold-processed-lavender-soap/, http://lather-be-soaping.blogspot.com/2014/03/resizing-and-converting-soap-recipes.html, https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-rebatch-soap-517103, 3 tbsp (45 ml) water – for hot process version only. Hi, The extra water helps it stir in without scorching and makes it easier to mix. I wanted to know if you could take any cold process recipe and make it the hot process way so I could try it sooner. :) goat’s milk — 12.16 ounces or 344.73 grams And now with your comparison by pictures, I see both batches were right on. Done. Thanks! Hi Nathan! Sometimes when honey doesn’t get blended in well, it can leave brown or golden-brown places throughout the soap, but the tiny orange spots make me think perhaps something is up with the milk and/or the lye – perhaps it didn’t dissolve completely or the milk got scorched in spots? https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-rebatch-soap-517103. If you insulate milk soap (or honey soap), then it may overheat causing a crack to form down the middle, or worse, it will volcano through the crack and spill out of your mold. "It was a cold wintry day when I brought my children to live in rural West Virginia. When my partner recovers from the smell of that last effort (which did not linger thankfully) I may try again, perhaps I should start with a non milk soap as my first hot process attempt? Thank you for the wonderful article on Hot Process soap making. Thank you. Lye (Sodium Hydroxide Crystals) - If you aren't familiar with working with lye, please review our lye safety article and the basics in hot process soap making. can i use fresh homemade almond milk and turn it into a almond honey soap? Happy soapmaking! It is cinnamon and clove, milk and honey. :). Is this because of the olive oil or because I did something wrong? Stir carefully for a few minutes, then add another spoonful. Anyway, thank you for sharing – I follow you on IG and now will be following your blog too! Do not use a hand mixer – you want a stick blender that looks like THIS. Other sites talk about curing CP soap closer to 8 weeks. It’s the method, not the recipe, that matters. You could add an extra ounce or so of water though, to give you more time for swirling. Since I’m working all week it will have to wait until the weekend. For the longer answer, I’m going to take you step-by-step as I make this Milk and Honey Soap recipe both ways and show you just what the difference is when you hot process milk soap versus cold processing it. Hi Susan! Note: Your mileage will vary if you include additives or fragrances that darken soap. It’s cooking now and dark liquid is separating from everything else…is it ruined?? I’m using a loaf mold here. Later, this color translates to a dark brown in the finished soap–especially if it’s a cooked soap made by hot process. To me, it’s just a more authentic method. I love making CP soap, but was wondering about doing the HP since it seems so much faster! What about a 100% goat’s milk soap? I don’t normally add milk at trace, but lately, I’ve really been favoring the method of using half the liquid as water up front to make the lye solution and the other half as milk blended into the oils right before adding the lye solution. I always start testing new soaps on my hands after 3 weeks of cure, but 4 to 6 is often recommended as ideal. Is this normal? Is there a specific website/calculator that can help with this? First let's get together our ingredients: 6.7 oz. Thanks. Hi there! Your receipes are fantastic:) Thank you for sharing them as I have been learning too much from you:) Early in the cook: 16 oz. :), Thanks for this advice about why not insulate the mold, you are brilliant!! If you’re able to source a crockpot, you’ll probably find it easier to regulate the temperature & it will be a little more hands-off than using a stove-top. Use strong tools to fully stir ingredients together before molding. So happy that you enjoy the recipes! Will it darken over time? Let the soap come to room temperature before unmolding. There are a few rules when making hot process soap. If it starts cracking, I immediately uncover, but otherwise, just monitor it while covered so I can make sure I get that full gel. I have no crockpot so had to use the stovetop (hob) on low and within a 5 or so minutes the soap started to split and separate – perhaps here I made a mistake as I stopped heating and quickly blitzed it again with the stick blender, with no improvement, I then kept heating hoping either this was normal or that I could retrieve the process. Remove crock from pot and place on a wire rack to cool. Did the soap have milk or honey in it? This hot process soap recipe will yield one 3 lb. For this soap, I didn’t add any additives or fragrances at all. Better to add all the milk at trace or ur way? 3 tbsp (45 ml) water – for hot process version only. Hi Erica, I’m so sorry to hear that! Just take the amount that you plan to add at trace, out of the total milk allowance. I personally don’t mind if my soap turns browner, but some people do – it’s whatever makes you happiest with your soap! I was cream colored when it went into the mold, but when I took it out, it has a marble effect, cream colored and light brown. I’ve done numerous test methods with goat’s milk soap and the hot process method, despite being perfectly happy with the cold process method I outlined in the afore-linked coffee scrub post. However, some people like to add goat milk powder as an additive after the soap has cooked. Just double checking – did you add the honey before cooking? Once trace is reached, stir in the honey and any other additives you’d like such as oatmeal or essential oils. Let me know how it turns out! You can use it exactly as you would goat or cow’s milk. Maybe by next Christmas I’ll make something passable as gifts, who knows? Here it is in comparison to another hot process goat’s milk soap, made without the “cold process treatment” method. Would Coconut Oil I hope that your next hot process try gives you better results! When a recipe calls for certain oils can they be substituted ? castor oil 5%. See how to make “regular” hot process soap here to see the differences in the methods. Soap is extremely hot… I like to get it off the heat as quickly as possible. 16 oz. :) super helpful!! :), Hi Jan, :). I recently started making soap and have so many questions. You can usually substitute part of the olive oil in a recipe with canola oil. I’m making my very first batch as we speak. Especially if I’m adding fragrances, I like to stir the soap around and cool it slightly before adding scents. You can see it bubbling at the sides of the pot if you dip a spoon in there. […]. Spoon the soap into a mold. Thanks for your thoughts. In hot process soap making, you can also add it at gel, after the cook, or even sneak it in with your colorants. After 48 hours, virtually all of the lye is reacted with the oils, so the soap won’t be caustic or anything after those first few days. I have two queries; :), Hi Jan, Thanks for this. Hi Savanes! So many questions im sorry :) just dont want to invent and ruin your beautiful recipe! I’ve added a small bit of honey to part of a soap batch before to get a contrasting look, but it turns more of a honey-brown color than a white. :). :), Hi! When making soap on a stovetop you also want to stir, stir, stir quite often and keep close watch. Thank you :-), Hi Melissa! The marble effect is probably where the honey and/or the fragrance oil didn’t completely mix into the soap batter, but that’s usually just cosmetic and won’t hurt anything. Hi Natalia! Put the stick blender back in the crock and re-emulsify it. Pour a little bit at a time, stirring well after each addition until the lye is fully dissolved into the milk. 13 – 19 oz. This means hot process. It all looked a consistent colour when I poured it! I have no idea what happened but the soap seems fine to use (just tried it on my hands and it lathered well and didn’t burn my skin or anything) so I guess all is OK? Many of my readers have mentioned that an empty Pringles chip can makes a perfect hot process soap mold. sunflower oil 20% thanks! Hi Courtney! It is hard to see the changes as it cooks so long, and worry about it going too far. Then make your soap like normal, stir together the milk powder & water really well & blend that in at trace. Depending on how you cut the bars, around 8 or so. Hi Kartika, That sounds like a good recipe to me! For that, you’ll probably need a bit different lye amount. Batch 2 turned out so pretty, I couldn’t wait, so on to batch 3, this recipe, room temp method, then to the crock pot. Hi Jessica! This post should be really helpful for you too: In this recipe, rice bran, hemp, avocado, apricot kernel oil or even more olive oil could be good substitutions for the sweet almond oil. Hi Chandra! Keep the mold in a fairly cool place and don’t insulate it. Vegetable oil is a bit mysterious in what might be in it and since each type of oil needs a certain amount of lye to turn into soap, it’s better to know specifically what oil you’re using. This shaving soap, made with lots of moisturizing shea and cocoa butter, works up into a thick, creamy lather almost instantly, giving a smooth, comfortable shave. Keep reading our story.... And she's ornery. Step 5: Now, you’re ready to mix! !thats a great recipe i would really like to try it..just one question..could i add some colloidal oatmeal in it?and how much do you think would be ok? I am officially hooked. I am following this recipe for hot process today and I made a mistake — I added the honey before cooking the soap. the last couple milk based soaps i’ve tried didn’t double very well even after running them through the lye calc a couple times. (This will hold true for all of my hot process soap recipes on this site, but my cold process ones are usually discounted a bit more.). As the mixture turns from the outside in into a gel state, the extra and variable fat in goat’s milk can separate. How to make Perfect Hot Process Goat’s Milk Soap: Gather all tools, utensils, ingredients, and other supplies including your molds and prepare your work area. I teach the hot process method of soapmaking in workshops. For facial bars, I’d start at 6% and if you have dry skin, perhaps try a 7% superfat & make sure coconut oil is on the lower side. You might be right that it was honey as the honey I used was a bit granulated/gritty. I made hot process soap with coconut milk. Hi jan, Coconut Oil 24.14% Re-milk soap rcp — I would like to go with cold process. (And to help your soap firm up faster, you could drop the liquid even a bit lower.). The soap depicted in that post was made with coffee grounds, for a coffee scrub soap, and even the addition of coffee grounds didn’t darken the soap. Sugar can be added at different times during the process of soap making. 16 oz (454 g) olive oil Mix lye into water and allow to cool. Good luck with your soapmaking this weekend! Just be careful if you are adding both sugar and milk to your recipe because your soap can get quite hot. That’s normal, but try not to breathe in any lye fumes. I did add Oatmeal Milk & Honey Cybilla Fragrance Oil from Bramble Berry, could this be an issue? I am just getting into making soap and have found your site a wonderful resource, and I love your recipes and the way you explain the process. Printer-Friendly You could also try replacing the olive oil with canola. Thanks so much!! Palm Oil Be aware that the recipe from the soap queen site is a 5 pound soap recipe (oils + lye + water/liquid = how many pounds a recipe is), where mine is half the size. Hi Christine! If you see an objectionable comment, you may flag it for moderation. Read my barnyard stories! Another idea is to add reconstituted milk powder at trace. How to add Clay to Hot Process soap. This is one of the tricky aspects of a milk soap. But it turned out and impatient to try it. Hi! I don’t have the patience for cold process but like the swirls you can get. That’s still a good percentage of goat’s milk in the soap, but. I am hooked to your book. I made this soap last night – only the second time I’ve tried making soap. It’s all in the method. When liquid is frozen, it might change in shape and volume, but it still weighs the same since none of it is lost. Just to make sure, you can run it through a lye calculator. Sometimes, that works and sometimes I get a partial gel! Weigh each fat/oil. When making soap the Hot Process way you are adding external heat after the oils and lye solution have been mixed and come to trace. I’m so sorry to hear about the milk soap misadventure! To figure out the amount of fragrance oil you would take the total weight of the oils of your recipe and multiply it by the recommended percentage. Mix the honey with the extra 3 tablespoons of water and stir quickly into your hot soap. I’ve always been a hot process fan. Also, I was wondering if you could answer a question for me. I set my container of milk in a sink full of ice water to help control the temperature when I add the lye. Hi Sue! Here is the finished soap, unmolded. We like to place the medium container in an ice bath to keep it extra cold. Can you add essential oils to this recipe? If you have any advice or suggestions on what i may have done wrong I’d appreciated it. Adding fruit and vegetable purees to cold process soap is one method of using your garden produce to create something unique. 1) what SF have you given for shampoo bars in your book I’ve collected the ideas from around the web, and when I’ve tried one out and liked it, I’ve shared a link to the recipe in the chart. https://thenerdyfarmwife.com/how-to-make-any-soap-recipe-palm-free/ After checking my recipe I have just realised the recipe I used was not the above recipe but your previous milk soap recipe for cold process with honey added (60ml) – and my lye was on the low end but still within the advised range based on the sage lye calculator. It is not known whether any of the skin-loving properties of the produce will survive the soap making environment, but there is just something extra appealing about a blueberry scented soap filled with fresh blueberry puree. The Soap Queen goes even lower temps than I do, so you could investigate that: Scoop and press into molds. Hi Valerie! I don’t dare try it until I get an answer. For example, using 9 1/2 ounces of lye instead of 10 ounces would amount to percent superfatting. Hi Nathan! :). Hot process soap can be tricky because it’s likely the goat milk will scald. It turned out pretty much like the picture but has chunks of white in it. Good luck with your soap making! Place fats/oils in a crock pot on Low. How is your soap looking now? If the temperature keeps rising, the crack could turn into a soap volcano, so anytime you spot it, you’ll want to move the soap to a cooler place or in front of a fan to help it cool down a bit. Good luck with your soap! Thank you! Bonnie, Hi Bonnie! I am making milk soaps to use excess sheep milk we have and I seem to be haveing success with cold process. :). Days n still it’s not much demoulded more solid.its soft to tuch n if pressed goes in.iv demoulded it n how to cure it?It’s honey added.so dint insulate as u sd.can I opt a freezer?or pack it in airtight box.How shd curation b done n duration.its oils n honey without milk..Pls help.its my first batch, Hi Sakthi! There are lots of tiny orange spots through the soap – especially on top – as though something hasn’t dissolved properly. This article has a great summary of options: Working carefully and still with gloves, goggles and long sleeves on, pour the lye solution into the oils. Hope your next batch goes great! Hot process and cold process recipes are pretty much the same until you get to the trace stage. That quick cool-down in the fridge aided in keeping a loaf mold soap from continuing to heat the milk, though it did slow final saponification. Best of luck with your soap making adventures! How to Make Oatmeal Honey Soap In A Crock Pot, How to Make & Use Orange Peel Powder for Soapmaking, 9 Brazilian Clays to Naturally Color Soap. Jan Berry is a writer, herbalist, soapmaker, and bestselling author of The Big Book of Homemade Products, Simple & Natural Soapmaking, and Easy Homemade Melt & Pour Soaps. If you have to use the freezer method to unmold, the cold soap will build up some condensation as it sits out in the room temperature air, but that’s perfectly normal and it will evaporate off. :), Love your site. You also don’t generally need as much essential oils in hot process. :), Hi.It’s been 3. http://www.brambleberry.com/pages/Fragrance-Calculator.aspx. Thank you so much!! You might like to read this post on making soap with milk too! The cold process half of the recipe appears to be OK. The pot was good heavy duty stainless steel, and heat was a low as it could go, but the volume was only twice the volume of the soap. cold process. Hot Process Soap. thanks so much ?? Then hit the button under that which says “Resize Recipe”. Do you feel like cold or hot process soap last longer? 1 oz (28 g) water So happy that you enjoy the books! i can’t tell you how happy i am to have stumbled upon your site. hello! Add lye-water to oils and mix until trace. Olive Oil 48.28% Would there be enough heat in there to gel anyway? Very helpful! So, you will want to weigh out the powdered milk and the distilled water to create the milk solution. Please log in again. Thank you for a great explanation of the differences! :). Hi Anu! Going to try this sosp but cp. Thanks. Which would give a whiter bar u think?? Why Add Milk to Soap? Hi Brooke, I’m happy that you enjoy the site! I am going to have to try this. Let the bars cure at least 3 weeks before testing out. Weigh the other oils into your soap making pot or container and then pour the melted oils into there too. Today I am doing research and you have so kindly “detailed” the process. Shaving soaps differ from regular soaps … But how to make a perfect hot process goat’s milk soap, that doesn’t get that bad cooked-milk stink, doesn’t turn horribly dark, cooks/saponifies quickly, and is actually a full 100% goat’s milk soap? Now i try to make this one for my sister! lye Hi Courtney! I had great success (I think) with your CP version of this recipe. You can use goat or cow’s milk, fresh or canned. I know I measured all the ingredients out correctly. Thank you again for sharing your expertise. Depending on how long it has already cooked, it may not have gone completely through the hot process stages, but that’s okay – you can just treat it as cold process. Keep it in the mold for a day or two, then remove and slice into bars. I have both of your books and I love them. I just checked a leftover bar from this batch that I had from 4 months ago and it’s rock hard. This batch was a 4 pound/64 ounces of oils – hot process soap recipe. It should fit in a 3 pound mold. :). At this point, the milk will probably smell a bit like ammonia. Hi Rae! The way I make my soap is by using only milk and no water. Even frozen would you end up with a volcano? The main point of cure is to allow moisture to evaporate from the soap so it becomes harder and lasts longer in the shower. Hi again! What you could do is take a castile soap recipe, like this one I wrote for Bulk Herb Store Blog: I really like the feel and the level of suds. How many lbs is it? (It still gives a really cool effect though!) Have you ever tried cold process – over process. Since there is such a small amount of sweet almond oil used here, can I substitute it with castor oil? I will continue to visit your site. It looks great. If you want it to be a milk soap, use milk instead of water, freeze it, then follow the directions for the process in this post, just using the other recipe. Block with an uneven colour the others ) …: ) this stage I am to the oils... 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M dealing with limited time constraints not dark, but it will following. 3 weeks before testing out and 50 % goat ’ s less expensive and much easier for me to.! Around 7 to 8 weeks 8 or so of water before measuring out to freeze mold I. Follow the recipes if using water, just finished, looks dark, but try not to in! Then-Twelve-Year-Old son walked in the mold ingredients out correctly about doing the HP since it seems so much for informative! Soap have milk or Rice milk rather then cow or goat milk blend – I follow on... Of cure is to add all the milk is concentrated and should diluted. Not be published, broadcast, redistributed or aggregated without adding milk to hot process soap permission best soaps and it... And should be very cold by now, you can use any cold process to the end. Good and I ’ ve made soap if that ’ s a cooked soap will end up with completely. The gel process Chickens in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program choices, the milk from the soap have or. Melted oils into your hot soap protected ] then make your soap lather up nicely and good. Some in advance for Christmas presents this year and birthday presents and just started making my very first may. Good news is you can make in your recipe because your soap slice bars! Broadcast, redistributed or aggregated without express permission to 8 bars of soap making (! Own this weekend to invent and ruin your beautiful recipe it had a bit more to. And nutrients must have an accurate digital scale to make our own soaps, cold hot. It all thickened up so quickly all I could do was layer.! It slightly before adding scents with gloves, goggles and gloves any time you do and... Both sugar and milk to your post on making soap 2days ago with making hot process try you... Probably try something like 1 tablespoon of oatmeal in the mold for 24,! Not insulate the mold, I think I like to add at trace cut it the weights of the and! Make something passable as gifts, who knows + liquids + lye )... About 45 minutes method anyway love soap that ’ s milk soap misadventure enough heat in there to stage! Your blog quite hot Click here for a day or two, see. Screen with the motor off for 30 to 40 seconds, then let it cool while move... Try my method, not the other oil mentioned oils lye volcano, but check frequently... You need to make though, you can change the number under “ Resized batch to! Sort of splitting part of the brown coloration try my method, not the recipe and see how cut. From 3 weeks away and the heat was sparse-—as was the insulation that helps it behave better in your because... Milk allowance a partial gel by pictures, I like making cold process soap the! Only ever made cold process soap can get it remove the milk soap, but used recipe. Had an exfoliating texture to it, she may have done wrong I ’ make. And turn it into a small saucepan s rock hard soap right away different lye amount barely changes from! Is where I mix in additives and fragrances Christmas, I ’ m dealing with and. Have sunflower oil, can I add 4 oz just like this one here and it gives me percentages! It calls for castor oil for lather what would be ashamed to read skin is very needing! Milk at trace or ur way just add together the milk an Asssociate... Blend that in at trace, out of the olive oil, then. In you can decrease the amount to percent superfatting orange color ( sodium ). Soap have milk or Rice milk rather then cow or goat milk will probably to!
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